dead babies and mind control

[her_imperial_radiance]

[Grandma, Mama wants me to speak with you about what Harley said about the world he landed in when he vanished,] Elspeth says, shortly after it's clear that Harley's second vanishing was just him waking up. [He said it was run by one of your alts.]

Comments

[prima_sequentem]

[...Go on,] says Lizzie.

[her_imperial_radiance]

[He woke up and disappeared again before he could go into much detail, but apparently an alt of Chelsea was heavily involved, who kept 'pets' and used her powers on the entire world population. He also mentioned something about dead babies, but didn't have a chance to elaborate. Mama's now suspicious of you by proxy; she's also considering the possibility that Harley misidentified the Empress's template, since face doubles that aren't alts exist, but she doesn't think so. I'm supposed to find out from you if this sounds like a plausible instance of your template, and what conclusions should be drawn if so, especially about how to deal with the world once we can get to it freely.]

[prima_sequentem]

[The first question that comes to mind when I hear about an alt of me using an alt of Chelsea to rule the world is, what must it have looked like before she did that? As abhorrent as I find Chelsea, it's not inconceivable that another me could put her to work averting some catastrophe she considered worse.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[Based on what I know about Chelsea - which is her entire history except for a few weeks before she died, via Aro and Addy - she wouldn't work for anyone who wouldn't let her use her power on them. Does it seem likely that she got to your alt, Aelise, first, and that this clouded Aelise's judgment?]

[prima_sequentem]

[...Not especially,] she says. [It's possible, but it's not that likely. Putting myself in Aelise's hypothetical shoes, if Chelsea needed to go, the fact that I liked her wouldn't stop me.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[The alt was named "Chelsa",] supplies Elspeth. [So you expect that Aelise is using Chelsa in a clear-minded fashion to avert something she considers worse.]

[prima_sequentem]

[That's the possibility I consider likeliest,] says Lizzie. [In which case my recommendation for how to deal with the world is to take out Chelsa and then give Aelise the resources to avert the thing in a different way. Optionally reverse the order of those two. Also optionally, send you through to un-Chelsify Aelise, before or after getting rid of Chelsa.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[I would need to bring Mama to avoid getting Chelsaed myself. I'm not immune, I can just undo - half of it. And it was very hard to do, with Harley, it took longer than undoing Chelsea's work, she sank in deep. The fact that I could reverse it at all probably means that Mama could shield against her, but she must be stronger than any witch I'm aware of. Chelsea needed seeds to start with - she couldn't work from nothing. I'm sure Harley gave Chelsa nothing.]

[prima_sequentem]

[In that case it might be safest to take out Chelsa before anything else.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[If Chelsa has that much scope, and that much power, other people on the world might, too. So far all of you come with corresponding Chrises. Hers might be gifted like the Eos one - it might be impossible to take out anyone Aelise considers important to keep safe.]

[prima_sequentem]

[In that case maybe I should go along,] says Lizzie. [Not that the idea of Chelsa getting her hands on me isn't horrifying, but I bet I'd be handy for negotiating with Aelise.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[Mama doesn't want to trust anyone from that world with minting until she or somebell else has cleared them.]

[prima_sequentem]

[If I do mint her, it won't be until after the dust settles and it definitely won't be part of the negotiation process.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[I'm not sure if that means you'd wait for somebell to clear her or just that you wouldn't mint her first thing.]

[prima_sequentem]

[It means that the issue of whether or not I'd wait for somebell to clear her is separate from the issue of whether or not I should be included in the expedition.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[All right.]

[prima_sequentem]

[Anything else? Is Bella still going to be suspicious of me?]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[...Probably not enough to matter. She does consider this empire - from the sound of it - a case of failing really badly, not a form of succeeding, and I don't think that will change even if we confirm that Aelise was averting something else that was also awful. But Mama has no reason to distrust your ability to handle personnel as you have been, and Dad is still paying attention to everyone's thoughts for her so I don't think she'll expect sudden backstabbing so you can go ally with Aelise or anything given the chance. I think Bells in general might be more suspicious of new Libbies, once this information makes it to the peal, though. Like the reverse of the Voice template - the one from Samaria who lives here now is fine and harmless, the others are understood to be generally awful. Maybe Aelise is a one-off under extreme circumstances and we'll never see anything like it again, but we don't know yet, and an entire world under constant Chelseaing is just about the worst thing Mama can think of.]

[prima_sequentem]

[Worse things exist,] says Lizzie. [An entire world under constant mind control from someone whose obsession is with other people's suffering, for example.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[Yes, if you gave Mama a list of excessively horrible things she might not put this world at the top, but this one has more emotional repellence, considering.]

[prima_sequentem]

[I understand.]

She pauses, then adds, [It might be worth talking about why "go ally with Aelise" is a nonsense idea.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[All right, why is it?]

[prima_sequentem]

[If "ruled by all-encompassing mind control" is how Aelise ultimately prefers her world, then I disavow identity with her and I bet the rest of my template does too,] says Lizzie. [I'm going on the assumption that she wants to get rid of Chelsa, but has what she considers a good reason not to, and I would probably more or less agree with her that it's a good reason if I knew what it was. What I want to do is find out what that reason is and then find a way around it. I cannot ally with Aelise against Bella because my entire stake in this is that I want to bring Aelise's interests and Bella's interests into alignment. A world ruled by one of me could be a place Bella would love, if we got around whatever problem made her include Chelsa in the first place.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[What about a scenario where the problem can be fixed, but only to a point, such that Mama would rather go through with it and be rid of Chelsa and Aelise would rather stick with what she's got? Since we don't know what the problem is, it's not impossible.]

[prima_sequentem]

[Then who I tried to convince would depend on who I agreed with. But I will go on record as saying that I think it's premature to think of Bella and Aelise as already being in conflict.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[I don't think Mama's going to like her.]

[prima_sequentem]

[I don't think so either, but there is a wide range of possibilities between 'best friends' and 'open war', and I want to avoid tending toward the second extreme.]

[her_imperial_radiance]

[For that matter, I don't think I'm going to like her,] Elspeth goes on quietly. [You may have to do most of the talking.]

[prima_sequentem]

[her_imperial_radiance]